Eli's Story: Learning to Be Honest

Before coming to The Potter’s House, Eli was living a double life. He was outwardly spiritual but inwardly broken. In this episode, he shares how unresolved grief, addiction, and shame kept him stuck in cycles of self-sabotage until he finally surrendered to healing. Through deep introspection, faith, and community, Eli found purpose and learned to love himself again. 

Psychiatrist Dr. John Tumeh also joins this episode to shed light on the connection between mental illness, addiction, and homelessness—and why empathy is essential for recovery.

Transcript

Eli_Audio 
 

Eli: Before I came there, uh, the big conflict I had was something that Christ expects of us to walk in the light as he's in the light. And at some point it just jumped out at me. Like I wasn't doing that. I was walking in deception and shifting shadows. I was presenting myself as one thing, but I was walking in another way that conflicted with my spirit. 

Eli: And so like when somebody would tell me that they were grateful for me, it would cause shame. Right. I would feel guilty if somebody said, I love you, you know, which just made me feel broken. Um, and it's funny how God works. He takes what, like the enemy meant for evil and uses it for good in the way that, like that brokenness, he used that to draw me to where I needed to be. 

Rachel: Welcome to Unseen Atlanta and Atlanta Mission Podcast, where we shine the light on some of the city's toughest issues. We do this by sharing true stories from real people who've experienced addiction and homelessness. We're also gonna bring you subject matter experts to give some context to these issues. 

Rachel: I'm your host, Rachel Reynolds.  

Jonathan: And I'm Jonathan Miller. You're a co-host,  

Rachel: and today we have a very special episode for you. I know I say that every time, but trust us, you're not gonna wanna miss this one. We talked to Eli in this episode and he just had such a interesting spiritual journey.  

Yeah.  

Rachel: Um, before he found himself in the midst of addiction. 

Rachel: And I think he talks a lot about, you know, before he came to the Potter's house and then. While he's at the Potter's House, just kind of the spiritual journey he's been on. So, um, and then we also have a special guest in this episode that's going to talk to us about, he's been a psychiatrist for many years. 

Rachel: He's gonna talk to us about mental health and how that plays into people who are experiencing homelessness and addiction. Yeah. So  

Jonathan: let's dive in. Let's  

Rachel: dive in. Thanks for being with us today.  

Eli: Yeah, yeah. I'm glad to be. Here.  

Rachel: Yeah. We're glad to have you. We're excited to hear your story. So let's start from the beginning. 

Rachel: Tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from?  

Eli: Uh, I am from Jackson County, uh, where the Potter's House is. Oh,  

Rachel: okay. Oh, you're local.  

Eli: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very local. Okay. And I'm glad they're rebranding because I had it not been for my church, I wouldn't have known about the Potter's House. Okay. And it's, uh, been a huge benefit to me. 

Rachel: Yeah. Hmm. So tell us about your childhood.  

Eli: Okay. Um, I grew up not far from Jackson County, Oglethorpe, three brothers and a sister. Um, we ended up moving to Jackson County when, uh, I turned about 10.  

Okay.  

Eli: Um, I stayed in church quite a bit. Um, it wasn't really like. A necessary thing. It wasn't something we were forced to do. 

Eli: Um, but in my teenage years, it's something I kind of clung to. Um, but more for like the social aspect of it, I guess. Yeah, sure.  

Yeah.  

Eli: So the foundations were there to an extent, but as I became an adult, uh, and you enter into the world on your own mm-hmm. Um, shaky foundations kind of give away.  

Yeah. And  

Eli: so I kind of went that way even though the foundations were still there. 

Eli: And then, uh, moving through my twenties, I kind of went on, um. Uh, a spiritual journey, I guess, looking for, uh, different belief systems, just sort of  

Rachel: in your twenties. Yeah,  

Eli: yeah. Feeling out like yeah. Really how the rest of the world believed. Not really to look for a different belief system, but really to, um, try to figure out why different cultures believed the way they believed, I guess. 

Eli: And so you're doing all  

Jonathan: this research like online, or how was Oh, I just, how was this? Old  

Eli: bookstores. Yeah.  

Rachel: You're giving us, you're giving me the old bookstore vibe.  

Eli: Yeah. Right. So I, I, I'd like to find in all this different stuff and I got into yoga and all sorts of different, um, just practices.  

Okay. 

Eli: Invited stuff in. I didn't really know that I was inviting in through different relationships. Uh, I dated a few girls who were in the occult. Yeah. It was pretty weird. Side note. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was pretty weird. During this time period, you know, I kind of drank. On and off a little bit.  

Okay. Okay.  

Eli: I never really thought that I had like an issue with it. 

Eli: Yeah. In any way. But when tragedy struck, uh, that's when it. Really found its foundation. My brother passed away when I was about 28. Uh, he was in a car accident and, uh, older,  

Rachel: younger?  

Eli: Older. Okay. Um, and we were really close. Most of my siblings, I'm not super, super close with, but when, but you were with him, came to him. 

Eli: Him, yeah. Uh, we were very close and yeah, so he had a small stroke, uh, driving his car, no seatbelt. He ended up on life support for about a week and a half. And when he passed. They asked if I wanted to be there, and I, I couldn't, you know, I just couldn't do it. So the hour that I knew that they were going to do it, I started drinking and I stayed, held up in my friend's, sort of garage workout area for about two months, just drinking straight on FMLA, uh, leave from work. 

Eli: And then after that, uh, went back to work and, um. It would be sporadic. I would drink, uh, on these vendors and I didn't really understand why until after coming to the Potter's house and really working through stuff.  

Yeah. Mm-hmm.  

Eli: Anytime these emotions and feelings would come rising up, uh. I just kind of wanted to bury him. 

Eli: So I would start drinking and it'd be like five, six days later I'd be like, what happened? And then I would go four or five months without touching anything. So that cycle just repeated itself for a long time. And then, uh, I'd got into a relationship when I was like 37, 38. And we were engaged and there was a point where we decided we were gonna have a kid together and we got pregnant. 

Eli: And at some point, about four months in, she just decided she wanted to end things and have an abortion. And so I lost a kid that way. Uh, I wanted no part of. The abortion process. I wanted to have my child, but uh, it was outta my hands and that sent me spiraling, just completely outta control. And I got to a point where like I got so desperate, you know, I kind of reached out to God and I was like, you know, I can't do this on my own and I need you, you know, and I really started to pursue my relationship with God. 

Eli: But there was still like this piece of me that like. Just, I don't know. It was in conflict, you know, it, I didn't recognize it at the time as unresolved. Uh, guilt Yeah. And grief, things that I hadn't dealt with. I, I thought drinking for two months was, you know, a way to deal with grief, but, you know, it was still there. 

Eli: And so for the next two years, uh. Um, continually tried to pursue God, but I kept kind of falling flat on my face. Mm-hmm. You know, falling back into these old patterns. And I started, um, not really a podcast, but sort of a verse of the day thing on YouTube. And I, I did it so that I could get closer to God. 

Eli: I didn't know that it was gonna be a factual and actually helping anybody else in any way. Yeah. 'cause I knew that like. Studying the Bible was one thing. Journaling about it was another, but then to like actually put it out there mm-hmm. Was like threefold. At some point it started to help other people and people started reaching out to me and telling me that they started going back to church. 

Eli: Some people started reading their bible again and they were thanking me for what I was putting out there. And I, I got hit with this verse. It's out of James. It says that saltwater and freshwater can't come from the same spring, and that just kept hitting me over and over and over again. That at some point, the life that I'm actually living and what I'm putting out there and in are in conflict with one another. 

Eli: Yeah. And that the testimony that I have is gonna be affected by that and the people that are affected by it, you know, may be affected in a negative way. So I knew that I needed to get help, and it became apparent in my life that I needed to pursue some sort of recovery. Uh, it was becoming apparent to my friends and family and my, you know. 

Eli: My immediate family, and so I started reaching out to different places and the Potter's house popped up because of my church, and so I pursued that.  

Jonathan: Did your church like. Say, Hey, we know the Potter's House would be a good fit for you. Is that how No,  

Eli: I actually, um, went to a revival and during the revival, uh, they were doing testimonies, just random people coming up. 

Eli: And this one guy had gone through the Potter's house and he talked about how he had nothing before he went in. He was basically living in like a drug house. No friends, no family, nothing. And he got to a breaking point and found his way to the Potter's house. And he had been seven years clean and sober. 

Eli: Wow. He got his master's degree. He was, uh, pastoring a church and he said it was life changing. And he also happened to mention the verse in James about, um Oh, so  

Rachel: you knew?  

Eli: Yeah. Just knew it was a verse that kept hitting me over and over. And then I. Was kind of looking into recovery. And then this guy repeats this verse out of James about fresh water and salt water. 

Eli: And I was just like, all right, you know, I hear you. And I ended up, you know, checking into the Potter's house and I didn't check in immediately. I called the Potter's house and I was like, yeah, I think I need help. And they were like, uh, how about Monday? And I was like, oh, that's super quick. I need to do some things. 

Eli: And so then I kind of backed out and I didn't call him back for like a month and a half. And then. I stumbled up again and I was like, I need to do this. Yeah. I really need to do this. So I called back again and they were like, how about tomorrow? And I was like, look, I gotta cancel my car insurance. So I backed out again for about a week and I finally, finally, um, checked myself in and it's, it's been life changing. 

Rachel: So you check into the Potter's house?  

Eli: Mm-hmm.  

Rachel: What was it like when you first got there?  

Eli: Uh, disorienting. Yeah. Um, I didn't really know what to expect. I'd never been in a situation like that. Um, you hadn't  

Rachel: gone through rehab before?  

Eli: No, never. Okay. And a lot of the guys that come from like TSI and from jails, and so I'm kind of a minority in the fact that I was seeking out Yeah. 

Eli: Help on my own.  

Rachel: We call you voluntary.  

Eli: Voluntary, yeah. Yes. And so it, it, it was very disorienting, but I went into it. Completely open and willing to change. And I still found difficulty, uh, during my time there, uh, especially to begin with because I, you know, I didn't know what to expect. Yeah. To my benefit, you know, being open and willing to change. 

Eli: Yeah. The hardest part of the program for me is just introspection and. Uh, at this point, um, they have me teaching a class in the mornings, uh, four days a week for the new guys who are coming in to try to introduce them to what a quiet time with God looks like in the mornings to sort of set a, a motivation for the day. 

Eli: And so I tell them that same thing over and over. You know, how you begin your day is. Vital as far as like moving forward. Mm-hmm. And introspection is a huge piece of that.  

Rachel: Yeah. So tell us about your time at the Potter's House. What has it given you?  

Eli: My time at the Potter's House has given me that it's given me introspection. 

Eli: Um, I. The interesting thing to me is, like I said, when I talk to the guys, I tell them about fruit, right? Matthew 1233 talks about if you make a tree bad, it's gonna produce bad fruit. If you make a tree good, it's gonna produce good fruit. You know them by their fruit. As far as like the fruit that I was producing before, yeah, I came to the Potter's house. 

Eli: I didn't recognize the effect that I had on other people. And even now with producing better fruit or good fruit. I had a guy come up to me the other day after one of the classes, and he says to me, you know. I appreciate your consistency. I appreciate what you're doing here and I appreciate, uh, the mentorship and I never would've thought that somebody would've looked at me in a way that, you know, that I was like a mentor to anyone else, which is really nice to hear. 

Eli: But at the same time, it's a funny comparison to me because, you know, when I produce bad fruit, I couldn't see the effect I had on other people. And even in the same way, I can't quite see the effect that I'm still having on other people. Yeah. It's just kind of funny the way that works to me, but. Also in Matthew, it says, uh, I think it's in 1230. 

Eli: Jesus tells his disciples that, uh, you were either for me or against me. You either gather or you scatter. And what he's saying is that there's no middle ground, there's no stagnation. You're going to do either one. And before I got to the Potter's house, I didn't know the difference. And now I do. So what the Potter's House, I would say has given me so far is an ability to see that I. 

Eli: Am effectual, even though I don't see it, like I'm gonna plant seeds one way or the other. And so it's incumbent on me and I'm accountable now about the type of seed that I put out there. How long have you been at the Potter's house? Uh, nine months.  

Jonathan: Nine months. And what's, what does the future look like? 

Eli: Before I got there, I had inadvertently started in ministry in a way as far as, oh, okay. The, the videos that I was putting out there. Yeah. And it gave me a lot of joy to be effectual in somebody else's life in a way that was beneficial.  

Yeah.  

Eli: As opposed to like this unaware, negative effect that I had on other people. 

Eli: And so the future for me looks like continuing in that, like giving my life over to God in whatever way he sees fit. Mm-hmm. So that I can be beneficial for, you know, his kingdom, for his glory, not my own, you know, I. I lived a long time for myself and just like unwittingly causing all these ripples and other people's lives that affected them in a negative way. 

Eli: So, um, hopefully my future looks like some mm-hmm. Form of ministry and service.  

Rachel: Do you feel like you've been able to really confront some of that grief and  

Eli: Yeah.  

Rachel: Trauma from your. Back your past.  

Eli: Yeah. So they provide counseling and they provide, uh, through like, you know, the state certified counselors Yeah. 

Eli: And their advocates and the staff members. Um, I had an interaction with Ms. Adrian, the administrator, pretty early on. Uh, we did this, um. And she was just asking for these, like little snippets of our thoughts on one of the seven things that Christ said when he died on the cross. Um, and I picked two of 'em. 

Eli: Uh, one of 'em was a thirst and the other one was in reference to what Christ said to, um, John and Mary about, this is your mother. This is your son. Mm-hmm. Because I didn't, I didn't know much about that. Right. I wanted to look deeper into it. And I was kind of proud of myself 'cause I wrote like this really long thing about it. 

Eli: I went and I hunted her down and I really, it was just outta pride for myself. But I wanted to ask her what she thought about it. And she was like, oh yeah, I remember yours 'cause yours was pretty long. And  

she challenged me  

Eli: and she asked me, she was like, I can see that you have it here, but do you have it here? 

Mm-hmm.  

Eli: And it made me. Supremely aware that there was some obstacle, even though I didn't recognize it when I first came to the Potter's House, that there was an issue between me and my relationship with God that was cutting off and outpouring in my life. But in that moment, it made me very aware of it that I needed to work on that and figure out what was going on. 

Eli: So I mean, that was like the initial thing through counseling with Ms. Makayla. She hit me like a ton of bricks a couple of times, like she keeps tissues in her office for a reason. And then I had a conversation with Miss Maddie. Uh, that one was rough on me. She asked me one question and. She asked me what my future looked like about, um, and I gave her pretty much the same answer about ministry. 

Eli: And she was like, well, I can tell you have a servant's heart and I can tell that you want to help other people, and I can tell that you love other people, but do you love yourself? And I was like, why are you doing this to me right now? Like, grabbing tissues? And I'm like, are you serious? Why would you ask me that? 

Eli: But I mean, I needed, I needed to answer that for myself. Mm-hmm. And I'll, I'll say this, the Potter's House gives you. Every tool available. Mm-hmm. You know, every tool you could possibly hope for and more, but it's what you make of it. You have to want it and you have to pursue it for yourself. Uh, they give you the time and the space and the grace to be able to do so, but if you don't reach out and do it yourself while you're there, you're gonna get nothing out of it. 

Eli: Yeah. And fortunately for me, you know, like I'd hit a wake up call at some point that, you know, said, Hey, it's time to make a change. Yeah. Um.  

Rachel: So, do you love yourself?  

Eli: Yes, a lot actually. Um, I didn't, when I, I came into the Potter's house, like, 'cause there was this conflict between like how I was living and what I was putting out there, what I was trying to purport. 

Eli: Mm-hmm. You know, I wasn't walking and what I believed there was a. There's been verses where like when you read the word and you're looking for who God is in it, he speaks to you, you know, and they hit you like a ton of bricks and it's simple and it's sometimes it's just like, how didn't you see this before? 

Eli: Before I came there, uh, the big conflict I had was something that Christ. Expects of us to walk in the light as he's in the light. And at some point it just jumped out at me like I wasn't doing that. I was walking in deception and shifting shadows. I was presenting myself as one thing, but I was walking in another way that conflicted with my spirit. 

Eli: And so like when somebody would tell me that they were grateful for me, it would cause shame. Mm-hmm. Right? I would feel guilty if somebody said, I love you. Mm.  

You  

Eli: know, which just made me feel broken. Um, and it's funny how God works. He takes what like the enemy meant for evil and uses it for good in the way that, like that brokenness, he used that to draw me to where I needed to be so that, you know, he could show me who he says I am. 

Eli: So that hopefully I can fulfill a purpose that he has for me. I look at it like in the story of Jonah, right? Uh, well, I look at the Potter's House, like the story of Jonah. I kind of reference the Potter's House being a big stinky fish.  

A hundred percent.  

Eli: Right? So you're inside of this thing that you may not necessarily want to be in. 

Eli: Mm-hmm. And for a lot of guys, that's very true because they come from TSI, they come from jails. And this is just like a waiting period for 'em. But I tell 'em that like. When Jonah hits this realization in chapter two, I think it is during Jonah's prayer, maybe it's end of chapter one, but he we're not  

Rachel: fact checking you. 

Eli: Yeah, he, he, it's, the Bible becomes thankful at some point. He realizes that this thing didn't just swallow me up, that God sent it here for me to save me, to bring me to the place I was always supposed to be. Right when I was supposed to be there. And when he realizes this, it spits him out where he was supposed to be. 

Eli: And that's what the Potter's House has been for me.  

Jonathan: Wow. I love that. I love that too. Um, I'm gonna ask one, one more question as we wrap up. Um, you're talking about having to, to love yourself and learning how to love yourself. Um, what do you love most about yourself?  

Eli: Well, my relationship with God. Uh, the identity that he gives me and the purpose that I found behind that. 

Eli: Like I said, to walk in the light as he is in the light, to be honest, I got to a point where I wasn't able to be. I mean, and I knew it. Like I knew I wasn't able to be honest with myself. I would find myself lying just right to the face of my friends about what I was doing. 'cause they were worried about me. 

Eli: You know? It wasn't like I. Uh, was running around doing like crazy things, but, um, they knew through the isolation that there was something off. And I, I would hear myself, it was almost like I was outside of myself lying right to their faces. And I love that. Like, now I can be honest, not just with myself, but the people I can, uh, care about. 

Eli: And on top of that, like being able to be effectual in other people's lives in a positive way. Uh, I love that a lot.  

Rachel: Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Eli, for sharing your story. I feel like you're you're a really cool guy.  

Eli: Thanks. Yes. I'm  

Rachel: like, he's like a jack of all trades. It feels like you got a lot of cool things going on. 

Rachel: Um, but I think just your, what you, we've heard so many people talk about loving themselves is so important and how hard that is, but how that's such a. Key piece in the recovery process and just in life in general.  

Yeah. Right.  

Rachel: So I'm excited to see where you end up and to see what you do. And we are gonna come up next with a subject matter expert to give a little more context to Eli's story. 

Rachel: So keep listening. If you made it this far into the episode, you're likely feeling the weight of these stories unseen. Atlanta was created to reveal the raw and unfiltered realities faced by individuals in our city struggles with addiction, homelessness, and mental health. It's heavy, but don't stop. Now we're about to turn the page to something. 

Rachel: Life changing. Hope is coming. When someone steps through our doors, they step into an opportunity to start fresh. The transformation you're about to hear wouldn't be possible without our incredible partners like the Justin Landis group. Whether you're buying or selling your home in metro Atlanta, their unwavering commitment to exceptional service and authentic relationships. 

Rachel: Sets them apart. Their compassion and dedication to our community fuels stories just like these. A heartfelt thank you to our partner and sponsor, Justin Landis Group, because of your generosity, these stories don't end here. Now let's dive back into the episode. Hey everyone. I hope you enjoyed that story. 

Rachel: It was so amazing. We are going to go into a segment right now where we talk to a subject matter expert to give us a little more context from that story. So we'd like to bring in Dr. Tumay. Hey, how are you?  

Dr. Tuhme: Good, good. How are you? Good.  

Rachel: We'd love for you to introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do. 

Dr. Tuhme: Yeah. Like you said, I'm John Tome. I am a psychiatrist, uh, here in Buckhead. And, uh, my practice focuses on adult, uh, mostly outpatient, uh, psychiatry. So 18 and older do a lot of, um, uh, mood disorders like depression, treatment resistant depression, and some new interventional psychiatry. Uh, things like ketamine for depression, things like. 

Dr. Tuhme: What we call transcranial magnetic stimulation for depression. And then I also help with the, um, transplant organ transplant team here at Piedmont. Hospital where we do a lot of liver and kidney and heart, uh, organ transplant. So I'll see those patients as well for evaluation,  

Rachel: man of many talents.  

Dr. Tuhme: Well, it's, it's been exciting. 

Dr. Tuhme: Yeah. It's been, it's been while. How long  

Rachel: have you been practicing?  

Dr. Tuhme: Uh, after residency? It's been, um, it's been just about 10 years.  

Jonathan: Great. So, um, I'm really curious what got you into this field?  

Dr. Tuhme: That's a great question. The thing that. I loved and love about psychiatry is that it brings together so many aspects of the person that I am am very interested in. 

Dr. Tuhme: And it's all there, and it's all there all the time. And as a practitioner, there's a lot of different things you can focus on. So for example, within medicine, I find the neurosciences to be the most. Of course that leaves you with something like neurology or if you want to go into surgery, uh, neurosurgery or something like psychiatry. 

Dr. Tuhme: There's, you know, the, the, you know, receptors and the neurotransmitters, serotonin and dopamine and all these things. So that is, is of course all there. But then also you bring in the psychology, the thinking of the person. Their life experiences, their thought patterns, you bring in their, you know, belief system. 

Dr. Tuhme: The spirituality is, is a huge part of it. You know, the word psyche, the Greek word for the, you know, the soul of the person. So, um, and then the cultural part and. So everything is, is, is there. And for me it's, it's really exciting to be able to think about and look at all those aspects.  

Rachel: It's really treating the whole person,  

Dr. Tuhme: right? 
 

Jonathan: Yeah, exactly. People experiencing homelessness, people that come to us in need, they're experiencing mental health issues. Mm-hmm. Sometimes severe mental illness. Uh, Dr. Tome help us understand what it's like, um, to, for someone experiencing, uh, mental illness and mental health issues, what, how is it gonna impact their daily lives? 

Dr. Tuhme: You know, it can be lonely and, um, isolating to experience a mental illness, um, especially, uh, with not just the stigma. Seeking, uh, help and, and what's, you know, involved in that and having to tell people, I see a psychiatrist, I see a therapist, and that's getting a little bit better, uh, slowly. Uh, but you know, in addition to that, just the, the, the difficulty in others understanding what it is that you experience, um, it's hard for people to relate to it. 

Dr. Tuhme: Because, uh, unless they are going through or have been through it themselves, or are, are, you know, they have a great sense of empathy and patience and compassion. They oftentimes can move maybe at a pace or at a way where the majority do. But for those who do struggle with the mental illness, it, it doesn't either come as easily the complexity of the brain. 

Dr. Tuhme: And the fact that we really still are trying to, you know, decipher, you know, the causes, the etiology of these illnesses is, is, uh, does not make it easier to, you know, to be able to relate to others and to, and to, uh, share experiences like talking about maybe traveling somewhere and having food poisoning. 

Dr. Tuhme: You know, a lot of people could relate to that and share stories. But if you start talking about panic disorder, and, and I don't mean, you know, panic attack, but panic disorder or substance use disorder or OCD or, or psychosis, uh, you know, the majority cannot. Directly relate to that.  

Jonathan: Yeah. I mean, that really strikes me. 

Jonathan: I don't know what I expected your answer to be, but I don't, I don't think I expected loneliness and isolation. Yeah. Um, and, and we talk a lot about community and the importance of community here. Yeah. Uh, for our clients and that that's a. Big part of, um, recovery. It's a big part of, um, reentering society and the community. 

Jonathan: Um, so thank you for sharing that. Um, and part of our mission really is to drive greater understanding and empathy amongst our listeners and help us understand what are some common misconceptions or myths around mental illness and mental health that we, we commonly hold.  

Dr. Tuhme: A lot of the times, we will think that something that comes easy to us should be easy for everyone. 

Dr. Tuhme: So for someone to snap out of it, you know, it makes sense. If they don't have major depressive disorder when they're talking to somebody with depression, it's really not that easy at all. You know, the, the myth that this is. By choice. Well, it's easy. It's so easy for you to snap out of it. It's so easy for you to stop worrying. 

Dr. Tuhme: Why are you always worrying about this? Um, you know, you get into an anxiety disorder and there's a reason, uh, the person saying that doesn't understand that though. Um, you know, I can't understand why you always get stuck on this. Well, there's a circuitry in their brain that's overactive. And in yours, the person saying that it's not. 

Dr. Tuhme: So that's why you can't understand what they're experiencing. Um, so I think, um, uh, you know, the, the, the, the idea that. This is so easily under one's control and that they just don't wanna make a change. And, and, and that if, if they only just made these simple modifications, everything would be fine. Is is very, uh, simplistic and naive. 

Rachel: Well, and that's so interesting. 'cause that's what we hear with homelessness is just give him a job. Give 'em a place to stay  

Dr. Tuhme: there. That's right.  

Rachel: It oversimplifies it, but there's so much going on under the surface with trauma, mental illness, addiction, whatever it is. Homelessness in and of itself is a trauma, and so I think that's such a great parallel is like, I think so many people and so many of our listeners can understand what it's like living with. 

Rachel: Some sort of mental illness and how it's not these simple fixes, and I hope that they see that with homelessness, it's the same way. It's not just give them a place to stay, give them a job, and it will all go away.  

Jonathan: I'm imagining maybe some of our listeners are like, Hey, I know someone who may be experiencing mental health issues or mm-hmm. 

Jonathan: Mental illness. What would you say to that person if they're asking, Hey, what can I do? I don't understand. I know something's going on. Yeah. How can I best support my loved one?  

Dr. Tuhme: Well, I think that's the key, is the loved one. Part of it is, is love and, and compassion. Uh, empathy. You know, we talk a lot about empathy. 

Dr. Tuhme: The way we in the field define it is, is, you know, the, the ability to see it from their perspective, to experience it the way they experience it. Um, so, you know, the more the loved one knows, I think about this situation, about the illness, the better. Um, because they learn over time what are the sensitive areas, you know, where can I. 

Dr. Tuhme: Maybe where do I need to be more cautious or not push too much? Uh, what are trigger points? How do I, uh, talk about this subject? How do I not talk about this subject? You know, I'm always encouraged when I see, uh, parents of somebody come in and, and they wanna just learn themselves. And we have great, you know, organizations. 

Dr. Tuhme: Nami, NAMI, the National Alliance of Mental Illness. That's a, that's obviously a big one, but groups like that where they work to educate the families. Um, so I think, I think education, compassion, patience. But another thing I would say that is often neglected, and this is, uh, this goes back to stigma, but a generational thing is to work on yourself. 

Dr. Tuhme: If you're a parent, if you're a sibling, if you're a, uh, you know, a colleague, whatever, you've got a very strong influence on, um, on that person now, um, you know, just as I was saying that, that, you know, the more they know the better and the, the effect they can have if they've got their own baggage so to speak. 

Dr. Tuhme: And they haven't worked on it. That's also gonna show up, say, in the children. So as much as I get encouraged when I see the parents come in and want help, it can be frustrating to see the parents sometimes who don't have, let's say, the insight or the awareness, uh, into their own condition. How are they, um, uh, not helping their child by acting in such an anxious way all the time? 

Dr. Tuhme: I. You know, they're telling you, oh, my daughter's got so much anxiety, she always worries, and oh my gosh, and what is she gonna do? And, and this, and, and, and then she'll, right in front of her daughter, she'll be exhibiting the very same, uh, type of pathology. And, and you can see that, okay, mom has a lot of work to do as well. 

Dr. Tuhme: And we've studied these things, by the way, looking at the, the fact that the. Treated anxiety has on the child and untreated levels of anxiety and depression and, and how that can affect the child and it's not good. So I think being open to that, don't be defensive. The idea when you're bringing in a loved one, especially a loved one who maybe will not show up after. 

Dr. Tuhme: I often then try to bring it back to that person and saying, okay, how can we work with you? You're the mom here, you're the brother here. You're the person they're living with. You're really struggling, and they're just telling you they're not gonna come back in. So what do we need to do with you? And there's a lot there. 

Dr. Tuhme: If we, if we, if we turn and look within and do some introspection, we can see there's a lot there to deal with. What about parents or loved ones who, who enabled? Can they, why do they enable? What's their fear? They have a fear. Well, let's talk about that and if they're willing to. That can be huge. It's usually not. 

Dr. Tuhme: The case where they're coming in like that, it's, it's,  

Rachel: well, and that's, we have, we've, we've gotten, we've talked to so many of our clients, um, whether they're up at our Addiction Recovery Center downtown, and they talk so much about, in our program, the thing that's hardest to confront is themselves and how it's something we don't confront is ourselves. 

Rachel: We don't take that mirror and turn it around and look at ourselves. And I mean, when I'm talking to them, I'm encouraging 'em too. I'm like, not. Everybody needs to do that. Everybody needs to learn to love themselves, look at themselves, have some intro spec introspection on themselves, and just because you ended up at a homeless shelter doesn't mean there's not so many other people who are dealing with this, who aren't in a homeless shelter. 

Rachel: And so it's really interesting to hear you say that. I think that's such a unique thing about our program, is that it says, okay, the first relationship you need to have is with yourself. Hmm. Um, before you can have relationships with anybody else, we need to do this. And that's, I think, in our society, like you're saying, I hope it's taking a generational shift, but in our society that's not something we typically talk about. 

Rachel: And so it's really, it's cool to hear you talking so much. So much of what you're saying is paralleling all the stories that we're hearing. It just is a reminder. It's a reminder over and over to me that we are more alike than we are different. And our circumstances oftentimes divide us and put us into categories of us versus them, but we're really just all humans at the, the core of it. 

Rachel: Um, and so I think that's what I'm reminded of, and I hope that our listeners hear from this is that like, whether you're homeless, whether you're, you know. A patient that you are seeing, we all have so much in common. Um, and these are all things that are affecting all of our lives.  

Dr. Tuhme: That's right.  

Rachel: No matter what the external circumstances are. 

Jonathan: Yeah. Uh, thank you Dr. Tay for spending some time with us. I think it's so important for our listeners to be educated Yeah. And to start learning. And I hope this, this time spent with you. Yes. Is. Just the first step towards, um, learning and greater understanding. And that'll lead to greater empathy. Really quick, um, I know you mentioned one resource. 

Jonathan: Could you provide that resource and a few others for our listeners who may want to be learn Yeah, learn more, where can they go? And we can put those links in the show notes. It's probably,  

Dr. Tuhme: uh, the National Alliance of Mental Illness Do 

Dr. Tuhme: in terms of families. Um, um, you know, seeking, seeking education and, and help for, for loved ones. I think there's a lot of now depression support groups. You can look those up in your area. Bipolar support groups. And of course there's, uh, there's, there's good old AA that still has, you know, alcoholics Anonymous, and now we have na and all sorts of anonymous, uh, you know, topics. 

Dr. Tuhme: But, um, uh, that still has the best data for, you know, uh. Clean from alcohol over time. The more you're in aa, the greater the likelihood you're gonna stay sober. Um, so, you know, don't, don't forget the, the, the basics, the fundamentals, um, and then the, um, American Psychiatric Association, I. Uh, has, has, uh, links as well to different, um, different support groups. 

Rachel: Great.  

Dr. Tuhme: Awesome. Well,  

Rachel: thank you so much for your time. Thank you.  

Dr. Tuhme: Thank you.  

Rachel: I think this is gonna be so valuable for all of our listeners, so Yeah. We appreciate it so much.  

Dr. Tuhme: Absolutely. Happy to do it. Thank you both.  

Jonathan: We are so grateful that Dr. John Toay was able to, to share with us some insights about mental health, mental illness. 

Jonathan: Uh, listeners, I hope you got something out of it and that it's your first step towards greater understanding and empathy. Follow us on social so you don't miss the next episode.  

Tensley: Thank you so much for listening and engaging with these challenging yet vital conversations about mental health, addiction, homelessness, and trauma in our city. 

Tensley: Facing these issues head on is how we ignite real transformation in Atlanta. Thank you to our season sponsor, the Scott Pryor Law Group. The transformation you've heard wouldn't be possible without incredible partners like the Scott Pryor Law Group, personal Injury and Accident Attorneys, their compassion and dedication to our community. 

Tensley: Fuel stories of transformation just like these. If you are injured in a semi-truck or car accident, call the Scott Pryor Law Group. As a US Marine, we fight and win for you. Our clients are family for life. We handle all types of injuries. You focus on healing and we handle the rest. Now, if today's episode inspired you to take the next step, we would love to invite you to join the work that God is doing here. 

Tensley: There are two really impactful ways for you to get involved. First, you can give financially to help us continue the work you heard about today. Second, you can volunteer your time by serving at one of our campuses. You can find all the ways to give and get involved@atlantamission.org. Thank you again for being part of this journey. 

Tensley: Please join us next time as we uncover more powerful stories of hope and transformation.